I am also interested that contributors in this thread (especially those engaged with post-vegetarian ideas) seem concerned with providing respectful and sensitive critique to others. In a post-vegetarian world it would seem that disrespectful rebuff is a relative privilege given that your flesh is up for the taking by anyone who demands it for their survival, however tenuous their claim.

people forget that it was not charles darwin but benjamin spencer who coined the notion of ’survival of the fittest.’ people latched onto this idea to justify any number of atrocities: the genocide of native americans (don’t other animals conquer?), the extermination of jews (an inferior race), eugenics (just natural selection, right?). it seems you are justifying meat eating according to this logic.

i am not saying you are a bad person. judging from your post, you seem like a compassionate, thoughtful person. but i do think you argument reads like a rationalization. the difference between humans and other animals is that humans are capable of making ethical decisions based on the information they have. it is our “nature” to make ethical decisions.

placing yourself is some pseud-mystical “circle of life” is a cop-out in my view. the honest thing would be to say: i eat meat because i want to and despite the knowledge that eating meat will contribute to the grand sum of unecessary suffering on this planet. to place yourself on the level of a wolf who needs to hunt and eat meat to survive is refusing to take responsibility for your choices.

i say this respectfully. and, of course, i could be wrong. that too is part of what it means to be human.

A point about wildlife management: The animals do not regulate themselves or their populations. So I ask a vegan, What is more cruel? To selectively take older species from the populations thereby assuring their continued existance or to completely leave the species alone until said species depletes the natural resources of their habitat and are wiped-out due to starvation?

I think an interesting case could be made that humans don’t regulate themselves either. (Pretty sad considering that we are supposed to be “intelligent”) However, murdering humans is illegal. Save for when our idiotic governments find “cause” to make war.

And Billy, wow, let’s just put “GOD”, “lettus” and your “canines” (let’s see you use those things like a wolf uses theirs) aside and discuss your little world where humans are treated so well, because that’s not the earth I live on. Maybe your attitude towards animals reflects your own species inability to act “humanely” towards itself.

“Because I believe that one can only relate with
Another living creature by completely destroying it
I’m sure Sandors’ friends and family would appreciate this
A rationale so moronic it defies belief
Post-vegetarian I must submit to you respectfully
Be careful what kind of world you wish for
Someday it may come knocking on your door.”
Propagandhi, Human(e) Meat

We must have no illusions about the fact the SOMETHING ELSE MUST DIE TO ALLOW US LIVING. That must be clear. Vegans still clinging to this illusion should humble down their self-righteous claims of delirious omnipotence. That stated, we CAN make a choice on who has to die and why. And i still think that we can set our diets to humane and meatless standards.