About two hours ago, I ate fish for the first time in nine years. I have become a “post-vegetarian” (a memorable phrase I first came across in Sandy Katz’ Wild Fermentation).
I want to be clear that I am not speaking for or making claims about all vegetarians here. There are a wide range of valid reasons for choosing vegetarianism. But for me (and I suspect for many people like me) being a vegetarian was, in part, based on a disconnection from and denial of the bloody, messy, wonderful cycles of life, death, and rebirth. Here’s an illustration of what I mean: when I was a teenager I began to notice feelings of horror and sadness whenever I would see roadkill. These feelings were genuine but I took pride in them, and probably subconsciously cultivated them, as proof of my sensitivity, empathy, and higher ethical awareness (especially as compared with my parents and the other not-very-ecologically-minded suburbanites I was surrounded by). Now, roadkill is a valid occasion for sorrow and horror (and perhaps an indictment of car culture) but later I began to wonder: if I had grown up in a culture with a healthy relationship to the land, where people lived sustainably and with constant awareness of the world around them, would coming across an animal’s carcass in the woods provoke such pathos in me? Probably not.
The truth is, unless you know the secret of photosynthesis, continued living requires the death of other living things. This is true whether you are eating beef or vegetables, fish or rice. (I became aware of this, in part, because of a passage in one of Barbara Kingsolver’s books (I can’t remember which one) where a farmer was talking about how many mice and rodents are killed when a field of wheat is harvested.) I do think it’s valid to make ethical distinctions between different forms of life. At the same time, my choice not to eat meat was, in part, an attempt to deny the truth that I need to cause deaths in order to keep living, and perhaps even obscured my awareness of the sacred worth of the plants I was consuming, those lives which were ended in order to feed me. In this way, it was a pretense to innocence, which is quintessentially American.
As a pagan, and a member of the Reclaiming Tradition which views the natural world itself as “the sacred text of the Goddess,” I don’t view eating the dead as horrifying but rather as part of the sacred processes of life, death and rebirth. After all, within the sacred text of the Goddess, animals are killing and devouring other animals all the time.
Of course, there is a distinction between what I think and what I feel. Being a vegetarian has been an important part of my identity, and nine years is a long time. I have been aware for a year or so that I would eat meat again at some point. As part of that shift, I came to understand eating vegetarian as a kind of fasting, a long and needed purification. And now the time has come to come down from the pure air of the mountain and rejoin the messy, boisterous feast that is the world.
When I was sitting there, waiting for my fish and chips to arrive, I wrestled with my conscience. I was scared and somewhat disgusted by the sights and sounds and smells of the fish market around me. I thought about leaving. I reminded myself that I had been told in sacred space, multiple times, that I needed to start eating fish. I reminded myself that I had chosen to do this.
I thought, what right do I have to end the life of this fish, even indirectly? What dreams and desires were extinguished by that net? Wouldn’t it be better, more pure, to just let nature take its course without interfering? And I thought about much of what I wrote above, and remembered that animals eating animals is nature taking its course. I am not separate from nature; eating the fish was not interfering with some pristine natural paradise but participating in the bloody, beautiful reality of this sacred world
After the plate of fish and chips was set before me, I thanked the spirit of the fish for giving its life that I might live, and instantly felt a sense of peace and rightness. The first bite was succulent and soft and surprisingly familiar, anticlimactic even. As I ate the fish, I thought about how it had once been alive, how it had been swimming in the deep, and now it was going inside of me, was going to become my flesh. This filled me with wonder! I consciously took the fish in, took in the ability to move seamlessly through the water, the joy of swimming, the exploration of the depths. This was a form of nourishment too, feeding my soul as well as my body.
As I ate the chips, I thought about the potatoes too, and how they had once been alive, gathering and storing energy in the darkness of the earth. They had saved the energy for themselves, and now I was taking it. The potatoes too were an amazing gift, a death. I usually do not have this level of awareness and gratitude while eating vegetables, and this confirmed for me the spiritual necessity and benefit of eating fish. Eating the fish today made me feel joy and connection, a deeper awareness and appreciation for my own life and for the web of life that constantly sustains me.
During this meal, I thought about how I would eat from now on. I thought about all that I take in when I eat, and about how valuable it is for me to know the story of where my food comes from and how it lived and died, so that I can imagine and know what it is I am consuming and becoming. I saw the path before me: mostly eating plant foods, occasionally fish for a few months, and then adding birds to my diet. I will still choose to refrain from eating red meat, for health reasons, as well as pork.
I invite you to use my story, if you so choose, as a springboard for the contemplation of your own eating habits, traditions, and choices. What nourishes you? Where does your energy come from? What is the story of your food before it reaches your plate, and after? How does the life and death of the food you eat impact the many surrounding lives? What do you choose to give sustenance to?
Tags: eating fish, ethics, post-vegetarianism
December 1, 2007 at 7:59 pm |
I think it’s sad that you are no longer vegetarian but even sadder that you believe you have to cause death in order to live.
While insects and rodents may die in the harvesting of grains and vegetables, please know that it takes more grains and vegetables to raise animals for food than it does to feed people directly.
So by going back to eating meat, you are actually contributing to the torture and death of more animals than you were when you were vegetarian.
Potatoes cannot feel pain. However, animals (including fish) can. While you may feel “a deeper awareness and appreciation” for your own life when you eat fish, please think about that fish’s life. How he was cruelly taken from his home and killed.
I don’t believe eating animals is “nature taking its course.” I believe it is cruel, selfish and uncivilized.
Tracy
December 4, 2007 at 12:24 am |
[...] An interesting read about a ‘post-vegetarian’ eating fish for the first time in years. [...]
December 4, 2007 at 3:26 pm |
Giving up on a vegetarian life is your choice and you have explained the reasons for your decision. I have never heard anything quite like your reasons. In one way I could almost understand it when you include the cycle of life and death in your reasoning but my mind rejects it straight away. Indeed, there nothing beautiful about the way animals are raised and then killed for human consumption nowadays. Mass farming is an ugly thing that leaves no respect and no rights to animals whatsoever. It does not follow the cycle of life and death that Nature intended. Instead that cycle has been totally distorted and violated.
I am also very dubious about the fact that a “thank you” to the spirit of the fish makes it right to eat it. I gather that you do this as a form of respect but to me, this is what you described earlier in your post, i.e. a pretense to innocence.
All that said, I find it courageous to write openly about going back to a non-veg diet. It is easy for anyone to criminalise such choices, but at the end of the day, it’s your choice and no one can force you one way or another.
December 4, 2007 at 4:52 pm |
You’re entitled to beliefs and opinions, and I agree with the other comments that you are brave to put yourself out the like this, but with that said I find your argument for going back to being a consumer (both literally and figuratively) of animal flesh a bit misguided.
I’m conflicted: If you want to eat animal products, no-one’s stopping you, but making excuses such as thanking the spirit of the fish is ridiculous. Did you catch the fish? Did you hold it in your hands, look the fish in the eyes and reassure it that it’s just the circle of life as you gutted it? No. Instead you took the easy way out and went to a fish and chip stand where they did the deed and served it up to you. In what way is this honoring the fish’s spirit?
By stating that field mice are sometimes killed when wheat is harvested is just another way of placating yourself because, “Well, even if you are veg you still contribute to suffering.” Let me ask: Do you live in a city or a suburb? Do you drive to work? Do you have to take prescription medication? If so, no matter how committed you are to your vegetarian or vegan values you are aware enough to know that no-one, period, is 100 percent vegan, pure, etc… It is impossible.
With the understanding that you’re veg because you do not want to contribute to any unnecessary animal suffering; because you know that it is possible to live well without animal products; because you do not want to support a system that commodifies one set of beings at the expense of others (e.g., dogs and kitties = cuddly / cows, pigs, and fish = food) then you know there is no reason to kill a sentient, living, breathing being.
Instead of exploring why you chose to go and stay veg you reason that vegetarianism is a form of fasting and cleansing and that, when it comes down to it, everyone eats meat. Don’t blame vegetarianism if you felt hungry when you were veg – eat more (animal-free) food!
I didn’t come to vegetarianism (and later veganism) as a health obsessed purity nut. Granted, the way I was living prior to going veg was not exactly healthy and now as a veg I do feel healthy, but through further exploration of veganism and animal rights something clicked. It made no sense for me to eat, wear and otherwise exploit animals. It just made sense.
December 5, 2007 at 2:00 pm |
Congratulations on your decision. I applaud you writing this even at the derision of some fellow vegan/vegetarians. We all have a path to follow.
December 6, 2007 at 12:48 pm |
Tears came to my eyes as i read your wonderful words. I resonate with much of what you say: i too am Pagan; i too have been vegetarian (and vegan) in the past, and am no longer. for me, as i’m sure for you, the decision to go “back” to eating flesh, eggs, and dairy was one that took a long time and a lot of thought. I felt i had exhausted all other options in dealing with my chronic tiredness. the only recommendation i had NOT tried was “eat meat.” this came to me several times and i eventually realized that for honesty’s sake, i could not say i had tried everything until i at least gave that a shot. I had some beef, which fortunately did not make me sick, and the next day i felt like i was on top of the world. I felt like one feels after getting over the flu–it was so exhilerating to simply have energy for normal life! That was my message that indeed, that was what my body needed. No reflection on the validity of vegetarianism as a whole, or as a choice for other people: but my body told me loud and clear that i needed meat.
I don’t know what your specific reasons are, but i applaud you in listening to them. what you share about feeling your connection to the life of those beings that you eat is so powerful, and a message that I need to be reminded of. Thank you.
December 6, 2007 at 1:07 pm |
Now that i have read the other folk’s responses, i wanted to send you some support. several people here expressed something along the lines that thanking the spirit of the fish (they forgot to include “and potatos”) is anywhere from silly to delusional to downright evasion of responsibility. IMO, these people are clearly not folks who have ever experienced anything like your (our) spiritual path. You do not need to be bullied by them. It is so clear in reading their comments that they have no personal experience with either the kind of communion that you so touchingly describe, or with the sacred round of life as you and i understand it. On top of this, when people bring up the torturous mass-murder of factory farms, they are clearly missing the greater context of your article. From what you say here, i would be very surprised if the meat you eat comes from that type of history, just as i would expect you strive to make sacred, healthy choices about where your vegetables and grains come from.
I’m offering you this support because when you are faced with livid misunderstanding, it can be difficult to breathe and have peaceful perspective in that moment. I’m here to hold your hand and say, it’s O.K. sister, there are many of us out here–vegan, veggie, and meat eater alike–who hear your sacred truth as it is intended.
“Hoof and horn, hoof and horn,
“All that dies shall be reborn;
“Corn and grain, corn and grain,
“All that falls shall rise again.”
December 6, 2007 at 6:10 pm |
This is so well written! You ARE a writer, because through reading this, a piece of my soul was awakened and changed. It helped me find the parts of myself that had decided to eat eggs, milk, meat, and fish again. For me, it was a series of experiences: international travel, family Thanksgivings, and a college class about agricultural ecology. I visited the feedlots & the hog warehouses. And I started eating meat again after seeing how integral animals are to a healthy farm system. However, I also saw a truckload of young pigs who had asphyxiated on the fumes of their own urine in a warehouse that lost power to its ventilation system overnight. I felt grief for the pigs, and at the same time, I felt gratitude for being able to eat animals that were as much part of the ecosystem as the cabbage. There is an underlying violence to life; it is always around us, even if we say “I’m not going to participate.”
Last summer, I went fishing and caught a largemouth bass in a Michigan lake. I killed the bass myself. I had never participated so directly in taking a life for me to eat. It was a very strange, primordial feeling; a rather unpleasant rush. I filleted it, and grilled it with lemon and fresh wild herbs. It was delicious.
Now, working at a lab that prepares dissections for anatomy labs, I handle pig plucks (trachea, esophagus, lungs, & heart) all the time. It is always disconcerting to see and touch and smell these organs that look so similar to ours. Tonight for dinner, my dad is cooking pork. I have been thinking about not eating pork anymore. But tonight, because he doesn’t know about my feelings and is cooking this meal out of love, I will eat it. After all, it’s already butchered and packaged. And I like the way it tastes, especially with apple sauce. Living with my family again has caused change in me and in them– they have decided to eat more vegetables and have vegetarian meals twice a week (after I commented that we eat a lot of meat– it is one-third of every dinner). Change is always complicated, and fascinating.
December 16, 2007 at 4:18 pm |
Wow, this is the most comments I’ve ever gotten on a blog post by far. Clearly this is a subject that a lot of people feel strongly about, which isn’t really surprising. I kept meaning to reply, and I’m sorry for the long delay.
Celine,
Thanks for disagreeing in a respectful manner, and for stating that you think it’s courageous to write openly about this. I did want to address one thing you wrote:
Indeed, there nothing beautiful about the way animals are raised and then killed for human consumption nowadays. Mass farming is an ugly thing that leaves no respect and no rights to animals whatsoever. It does not follow the cycle of life and death that Nature intended. Instead that cycle has been totally distorted and violated.
I completely agree with this; factory farms are disgusting and evil, and in violation of the sacred cycle. The fish that I ate was wild caught, fresh and (relatively) local. Though I have decided to eat fish now, eating any animal that had been raised in a factory farm would definitely still violate my ethics. I spoke about taking in the fish’s experiences of swimming–eating factory-farmed meat entails taking in the experiences of suffering, imprisonment and despair. Not something I want to do.
KC Sunshine,
Thanks for the support and encouragement.
Faith,
I’m always touched when I hear that my writing has moved someone. And I’m glad that my words reminded you of your connection to life. The story you shared is interesting. I think it’s an important reminder that everyone has different needs when it comes to food.
Thanks for your support and affirmation about the comments misunderstanding pagan spirituality. You’re right that I would not choose to eat meat that had been factory farmed, and that I eat almost entirely organic produce. (Oh, and I’m a boy. But I’m queer and pretty gender flexible, so you can still call me sister if you want.) This sentence was powerful: there are many of us out here–vegan, veggie, and meat eater alike–who hear your sacred truth as it is intended. And the chant that follows is very appropriate, which shows me that you do understand what I mean.
May 5, 2008 at 10:00 pm |
[...] me your post-vegetarian stories So, my post on becoming post-vegetarian has gotten the most hits of anything I’ve written here. It seems like there is considerable [...]
July 9, 2008 at 7:20 pm |
Man was not placed on GOD’s green earth to eat plants otherwise he would have made us ruminants and not given us canines. Also cows produce methane causing global warming so killing and eating cows helps stop global warming. Im not for the sinceless killing of animals but I am completely for killing animals as a food sorce. Finally Everything you eat that produces food that your body can diggest and use was at onetime living and had to be killed for you to consume it therefore you are no better then the person eating meat because the poor lettus plant had to be killed aswell for you to eat it although there is no nutritional value in lettus cause your not a RUMINANT animal and you cant digest it. Animals are not humans and therefor do not deserve to be treated like humans.
September 23, 2008 at 9:38 am |
Merry Meet!
I have been a strict vegetarian for 10 years. I have been a vegetarian because I believe in the sacredness of living things, and abhor the ways we treat our animals as worthless when intended for food. I grew up in a family that bow-hunted wild deer, that bought 1/2 a cow or a pig raised on a local, small farm, and fished regularly in local waters. I have always felt that eating meat was never the real issue for me-it wasn’t the taking of another life that really was my core problem. It was taking the life of an animal who has been denied joy, life experience, and dignity in life and death that was my biggest issue.
8 years ago, I woke in the middle of the night with the strongest spinning sensation I’ve ever experienced. I couldn’t walk-it lasted 8 months. I still struggle now, and no doctors have been able to diagnose or treat me, including homeopaths, nutritionists, and naturopaths.
I’ve been doing my own intensive research, trying to find an answer to this. I have much to do with my life, and am missing out on the best parts of it-as my kids grow, spending many days in bed….having a message to bring to others but being unable to schedule speaking engagements for fear that I’ll end-up ill that day and not be able to show….
Recently, in my inner searching…I realized that I had done to Vegetarianism what I had done to Christianity when I was on that path long ago. I had turned it into such a dogma-such a restriction, that whenever people suggested that my diet MAY be the reason I am so ill, I not only denied it but had an almost pious attitude toward them, as if they were unintelligent and naive to not “get” how much better MY lifestyle choice was. I had become so intertwined with my vegetarianism choice, that it was difficult to distinguish which was which. I felt personally attacked very often. IN addition, I had a fear that the Universe would punish me-through Karma or some other way-if I consumed meat, since being an “enlightened” person, I would be held accountable for my choice. It occurred to me last week, that the Universe that loves me, and whom I am a reflection of-would surely celebrate me trying whatever it took to make me well. Even eating meat.
I also have been reading on how the brain functions, and the roles of certain amino acids and neurotransmitters-(I believe strongly that my vertigo and peripheral symptoms are neurological in nature.)-including Taurine. Taurine is only present in animal products-including cheese and eggs, which I often crave. Some people are great at making their own adequate amounts of Taurine from other sources-while others are not. In addition, cheese and eggs have only small amounts of this neccessary nutrient, and meat and fish have the highest levels. Taurine is often used to treat Seizures, Migraine, MS and other neurological disorders etc. Much of this Taurine today is synthetically made, which for those who are Vegan is a good option.
However, this research has brought me to wonder if maybe I am one of those people who do not create enough Taurine, and this may be an indication that I should be eating-local, free-range, organic, well treated and respected meats. I wonder if Taurine, B-Vitamins and etc. are so necessary that I have to supplement them through synthetic ways, does that mean perhaps meat is something that is intended to be consumed-perhaps (surely!) not to the degree it is by North American standards…..but SOME?
This is NOT an easy consideration for me. Believe me. I’m one of those vegetarians who won’t even eat vegetables grilled in the same place as meat.
I am married to an Omnivore and his family, and as the only vege it’s been a weird thought that I may be eating alongside them what they cook at a meal.
The thought of eating meat was still repusive, but I was starting to understand that for me, the intention of the animals-why they were here-was a key factor. I am part chippewa indian, and I started exploring this as well.
I am surprised at how free I feel from the contraints I put on myself! I’m not yet a post-vegetarian, but yesterday, I bought salmon.
This week, as I celebrate my 34th birthday, I plan to also celebrate breaking free of self-imposed labels, and choosing to not live dogmatically. I will certainly not choose to eat Foie Gras, Veal or animals treated poorly, because these are completely against my core values. I may also choose to not eat meat at all for awhile, and then a little at some point-I’m trying to keep myself free of rigid structures that do not fully represent my morals.
Sorry for such a long response, and thank you for writing this post. For sharing eloquantly much of my current battle toward wellness in all it’s aspects.
Blessed Be,
Marcie
September 27, 2008 at 7:18 pm |
Hey Marcie,
No need to apologize! Thank you for sharing your story. I can tell that it’s been a real struggle for you, and I hope that whatever path you take you find blessings and health.
November 21, 2008 at 5:52 pm |
Oh my goodness, I have just come accross these comments on meat eating, the day after giving un-educated views on this. I meet weekly with four others to discuss our new Transition town group in Ely, Cambridgshire, England.
Last night met only with one other, two out of the absent three are vegetarian and were unwell. so I had my say about how I believed that the reason one of our fellow members had a lingering slight illness was because he is vegetarian.
Often it is really nice to be right, how amazed I am to have found this today! I am feeling a bit strange to think I might be right.
Loads of love and positive thoughts to all you people in your future eating decisions. X
February 18, 2009 at 5:22 pm |
Well, it amazes me to hear of someone who wasn’t aware of always living at the expense of some other living being, no matter if vegetal or animal. It’s really like that, there is no escape. Apart form this, i must say that the whole pagan and mystic stuff, including the gratitude expressed to the fish was somehow -pardon me- moronic. What difference exactely it makes to mindless dining at Mac Donald’s from dining at MacDonald’s in that self-assuring and vaguely critical state of mind? It makes none, i guess. It sounds like a rationalization, as you can easily be a beef eater WITHOUT all those deep-sounding insights. You can thank the forces of nature as the mand sitting besides you is cursing his mother with a mouthful of pork. You can vote the worst party even with the best intentions, while someone else is voting it to sheer self-interest. Plus, all that cheap naturalism sounds terribly ridiculous as we are speaking of fish and chips purhcased at resturant, the final stage of a mass-production machine which is anything but natural. Go and set up a farm in the countryside, cultivate your own veggies and THEN you can BARELY make some argue about that issue.
We must have no illusions about the fact the SOMETHING ELSE MUST DIE TO ALLOW US LIVING. That must be clear. Vegans still clinging to this illusion should humble down their self-righteous claims of delirious omnipotence. That stated, we CAN make a choice on who has to die and why. And i still think that we can set our diets to humane and meatless standards.
March 14, 2009 at 3:59 am |
i am saying nothing about whether or not any of us should eat meat, however, thinking about how your food once lived is only one tiny step toward connection with your food. if you want a chicken breast for dinner go kill a chicken, feather and butcher it and add to your favourite recipe!
March 16, 2009 at 10:42 pm |
it’s sad you’ve decided that you can somehow justify unecessary slavery, torture, and death in order to temporarily sate your hunger.
“Because I believe that one can only relate with
Another living creature by completely destroying it
I’m sure Sandors’ friends and family would appreciate this
A rationale so moronic it defies belief
Post-vegetarian I must submit to you respectfully
Be careful what kind of world you wish for
Someday it may come knocking on your door.”
Propagandhi, Human(e) Meat
March 18, 2009 at 1:40 am |
If you were caught by a bear in the woods this “circle of life” justification would go right out the window. Maybe I’m wrong. Maybe as you were being torn apart you would praise mother nature and offer up your spirit to the bear. I doubt it though. This is an excuse to give in to selfish wants.
And Billy, wow, let’s just put “GOD”, “lettus” and your “canines” (let’s see you use those things like a wolf uses theirs) aside and discuss your little world where humans are treated so well, because that’s not the earth I live on. Maybe your attitude towards animals reflects your own species inability to act “humanely” towards itself.
April 15, 2009 at 3:13 pm |
I think there is too much thought given to this subject here. The Fish, nor the vegetable, gives a crap what kind of respect we are paying it after it dies; its dead. Hey Rocco, Propagandhi is one of my favorite bands. However, just because Chris says something doesn’t make it gospel. I disagree with those guys on a lot of things, including Veganism. I respect the basic principles behind Veganism, but I think it is hypocritical for people to say that they live cruelty free lives. Chris’ song about Sandor Katz somehow doesn’t strike me as being free of cruelty.
A point about wildlife management: The animals do not regulate themselves or their populations. So I ask a vegan, What is more cruel? To selectively take older species from the populations thereby assuring their continued existance or to completely leave the species alone until said species depletes the natural resources of their habitat and are wiped-out due to starvation?
I think an interesting case could be made that humans don’t regulate themselves either. (Pretty sad considering that we are supposed to be “intelligent”) However, murdering humans is illegal. Save for when our idiotic governments find “cause” to make war.
April 18, 2009 at 3:22 pm |
i think “nature” is a dubious concept. to say this is ‘natural’ but this is ‘artificial’ is silly given that human beings are as much a part of nature as any other species. i think we agree here. but i also think to say that everything is natural is to say that nothing is natural. so, from my point of view, the word ‘natural’ is meaningless.
people forget that it was not charles darwin but benjamin spencer who coined the notion of ’survival of the fittest.’ people latched onto this idea to justify any number of atrocities: the genocide of native americans (don’t other animals conquer?), the extermination of jews (an inferior race), eugenics (just natural selection, right?). it seems you are justifying meat eating according to this logic.
i am not saying you are a bad person. judging from your post, you seem like a compassionate, thoughtful person. but i do think you argument reads like a rationalization. the difference between humans and other animals is that humans are capable of making ethical decisions based on the information they have. it is our “nature” to make ethical decisions.
placing yourself is some pseud-mystical “circle of life” is a cop-out in my view. the honest thing would be to say: i eat meat because i want to and despite the knowledge that eating meat will contribute to the grand sum of unecessary suffering on this planet. to place yourself on the level of a wolf who needs to hunt and eat meat to survive is refusing to take responsibility for your choices.
i say this respectfully. and, of course, i could be wrong. that too is part of what it means to be human.
May 28, 2009 at 7:21 am |
I think the notion of nature in this discussion is a bit constrictive. The forces by which a fish is served on a plate point to the capacity of humans, and indeed any living thing, to adapt and continually re-define its nature. I think it is a real shame to invoke nature as a deterministic force to which we must conform.
I am also interested that contributors in this thread (especially those engaged with post-vegetarian ideas) seem concerned with providing respectful and sensitive critique to others. In a post-vegetarian world it would seem that disrespectful rebuff is a relative privilege given that your flesh is up for the taking by anyone who demands it for their survival, however tenuous their claim.
September 14, 2009 at 8:46 pm |
Man, what a long winded sorry excuse for an excuse. The idea of “post vegetarianism” is absolutely absurd.